Jesse Ventura: the last of the straight-shooters?

http://papastraighttalk.blogspot.com/2009/05/jesse-ventura-calls-cheney-coward.html

He's an egomaniac, but how can you not like this guy?

 


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The US military brutalizes our special ops guys

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

To become a Navy Seal or any other type of special operations guy the military actually sends these people to torture school.  The "logic" is that they need to be waterboarded and suffer other types of torture so that they can resist this type of treatment if they are captured by the enemy.  Huh?

What it really does is damage them for life.  Also it may make them more likely to treat people they capture with a similar type of torture.

{;-) Dan in Miami

I think you mean SERE

Anonymous's picture

Dan, this entry bothered me for days

Coaster's picture

Dan_in_Cincinnati wrote:

What it really does is damage them for life.

SEALS are extraordinary individuals.  You can't judge them by normal human standards.  I'll give you an example.  As part of their training, sort of a final exam, they go on a simulated mission that lasts 4-5 days.  In that time, they do not sleep.  Have you ever been able to stay awake for that long without sleep in your entire life?  Now picture yourself, about day 3, paddling a boat or toting a massive amount of combat gear.  I know a former SEAL, a Vietnam combat veteran a year older than me.  He's been a Christian minister/missionary for the past 30 years, but you can still see the SEAL within him.  Sure, this former football player is not as big as he once was, but he still looks like ten pounds of dynamite packed into a five-pound bag.  He was invited to speak in South Africa a while back.  When he and his interpreter were walking down the street, a large man approached and told his interpreter, "Tell him to give me his brief case or I will punch him."

This former SEAL told the interpreter, "Tell him to move out of our way or I will kill him." 

The man moved. 

No, Dan, these are not damaged people, they are extraordinary people made even more remarkable by extraordinary training. 

 

Not talking about survival training Coaster

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

Please read the Slate article. 

http://www.slate.com/id/2216709

{;-) Dan in Miami

Read it

Coaster's picture

The training is intended to bolster the ability of our warriors to resist torture.  It is not intended to teach torture as a means of interrogation. The author did not back up his claim that those exposed to these techniques will go on to use them in the field. 

Read it. Hearsay. Assumes facts not in evidence.

Coaster's picture

Your honor, the defense is trying to turn this courtroom into a circus. 

A lot of people don't like being in the military, find the possibility of their continued presence in the military depressing, and don't reenlist.  ummm, like for instance.......ME.  Let's face it: If that kid was getting military career counseling from his mother, he should probably choose another career. 

Let me make this clear.  I don't think our country should be torturing any prisoner.  I also think that training our troops to resist torture (fuck that "harsh interrogation" political correctness bullshit phrase) is a good and necessary thing.  And I'll leave that call up to the troops and their commanders. 

You cannot train to be tortured.

michael3b's picture

The brain makes no distinction between training and actual torture. Nor does it bounce back stronger the way a muscle does.  These guys are being brutalized.  Even the minister in S. Africa still resorts to death threats.  Probably he was being facetious, but that kind of mindset and damage is not something we should be inflicting on our soldiers.  But we do as a matter of course, and we have paid an enormous price because of it.  I don't think people understand how completely, utterly retarded (since we're dropping the PC b.s.) the military mind is. It disgusts me that a military pedigree is something we look for in leaders.

qualifier: this does not mean I have no respect for people who are willing to serve, or that there aren't intelligent people in the military.

I believe military training issues are best dealt with

Coaster's picture

by the military.

I don't.

michael3b's picture

Sure, they are better equipped to train people to fight. But they are shit-ass terrible at dealing with the rampant psychological issues that WE are stuck handling as a society. And if torture has been shown to be ineffective and destuctive, why dally in it at all?

Our warrior class often deals with those less sophisticated

Coaster's picture

and our troops must be prepared.

Please note that our military commanders were against using torture as an interrogation tactic.  The only way torture got into the pipeline, as it's now becoming clear, was because Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld ordered it.  The military knew better.  It has recently come to light that mush of the harsh interrogations and torture were done by contractors, many being former instructors of the SERE school.  Note that the people at the SERE school recommended against using these techniques to gain information as they were known not to be effective.  However, Bush's cronies were never known for competence and letting facts get in the way of a hot idea. 

I heard a Republican senator say...

Rajah's picture

They been doing torture for 500 years because it works!

If these war criminals are not put on trial for this I'd charge the Dems with complicity! Let the international court handle it if you don't have the stomach for it. We'd  look better in the eyes of the world if we dealt with this and not try to push it aside.

Noted

michael4b's picture

Good points re: the military and torture.
The scumbag/retarded comments were over the top, but I still think that the mindset is unnecessarily brutal, that waterboarding does not prepare one for being waterboarded anymore than it tortures them, and that we as a society pay a far greater price for what the military does to many of its enlistees than we acknowledge.

This is not to mention that Jesse was the coolest wrestler of all time.

SERE is the US military torture school

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

On his first day in office, President Obama kept his most important campaign promise and began the process of closing Guantanamo. But this eliminates only the most visible part of the U.S. torture bureaucracy. In order to ensure that the atrocities of Guantanamo aren't visited upon the world by future administrations, Obama must also eviscerate the structures that enabled and supported torture. At the top of a long list is the U.S. military's secretive torture school, known as SERE, which stands for Survival, Evasion, Resistance, Escape.

Founded in the aftermath of the Korean War to train U.S. servicemen to withstand enemy interrogation, the school was central to the development of the notorious "enhanced interrogation techniques" at Guantanamo. It was the SERE program that sent instructors and staff psychologists to Guantanamo shortly after 9/11 and provided the technical expertise on tactics like water-boarding. As Jane Mayer put it in her study of U.S. torture policy, The Dark Side, "SERE is a repository of the world's knowledge about torture, the military equivalent, in a sense, of the lethal specimens of obsolete plagues kept in the deep-freeze laboratories of the Centers for Disease Control."

http://www.slate.com/id/2216709/

 

{;-) Dan in Miami

 

 

Did Cheney order torture to get false confessions?

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

David Waldman at the DailyKos.com thinks so.

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/001335/

{;-) Dan in Miami

Senate investigation proves torture for false confessions

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

WASHINGTON — The Bush administration applied relentless pressure on interrogators to use harsh methods on detainees in part to find evidence of cooperation between al Qaida and the late Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein's regime, according to a former senior U.S. intelligence official and a former Army psychiatrist.

Such information would've provided a foundation for one of former President George W. Bush's main arguments for invading Iraq in 2003. In fact, no evidence has ever been found of operational ties between Osama bin Laden's terrorist network and Saddam's regime.

...CIA interrogators waterboarded two alleged top al Qaida detainees repeatedly — Abu Zubaydah at least 83 times in August 2002 and Khalid Sheik Muhammed 183 times in March 2003 — according to a newly released Justice Department document

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66622.html

{;-) Dan in Miami

Mothers trump the military ...

Rajah's picture

so there!

and you thought I didn't have a comeback argument

Why don't you go stick your opinion

Coaster's picture

in the right place.

The Reply button is your friend.

Well, I'm off to Mayfest.

Mayfest? Excellent!

Foo''s picture

Lemonade, Dippin' Dots - the ice cream of the future, and hot dogs rule!

We're mere amatuers on torture compared to these guys

Rajah's picture

we lack the element of surprise btw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uprjmoSMJ-o

For more serious discussion on this matter

Rajah's picture

Here's Jesse Ventura on The View

Rajah's picture

Jesse Ventura smackdown on Fox and Friends

Rajah's picture

JV's in FOX AND HIS FRIENDS?

FearlessFreep's picture

Big news for Fassbinder fans!

 

Jesse Ventura and Rush Limbaugh in a cage match!

Dan_in_Cincinnati's picture

You could sell 10 million pay per views for that smackdown!

Can't you just see Jesse chasing the drug addled gas bag all around the cage!  Teh Heh.

{;-) Dan in Miami

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