So now we live in a socialist state?

"As the company worked during the weekend of September 12 to increase its finances, AIG refused a capital infusion offer from a group of private equity firms led by J.C. Flowers & Co. because an option in the offer would have given the firms control of the company....AIG Chief Executive Robert Willumstad took the unusual step of asking New York Federal Reserve President Timothy Geithner if the Fed would guarantee some asset sales. AIG has made an unprecedented approach to the Federal Reserve seeking $40 billion in short-term financing, the New York Times said."

 

Fucking cowards.  Loving the free market when it's free, crying to Big Brutha as soon as their shit starts to stink.  Although, the irony is sweet that the anti-commie-pinko-hippie brigade is at the forefront of this socialism revival.


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2

It's truly sickening. The

jazzdrive3's picture

It's truly sickening. The market is trying to correct itself and punish malinvestment, and the Fed just keeps giving heroin to the addict.

hmmm

Critico's picture

If i heard Ron Paul well, the Federal Reserve isn't the government, but a bunch of bankers, am i wrong?

It's a bunch of bankers,

jazzdrive3's picture

It's a bunch of bankers, yes, but it's supposed to have congressional oversight. But congress really doesn't understand squat (about anything, but especially economics). All the chairman has to do during the committee meetings is do a smoke and mirrors show with some big words, and they're satisfied.

That may be more accurate^

michael3b's picture

yep.

It is the government- mostly

michael3b's picture

The Federal Reserve System (also the Federal Reserve; informally The Fed) is the central banking system of the United States. Created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act, it is a quasi-public (government entity with private components) banking system[1] composed of (1) the presidentially appointed Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System in Washington, D.C.; (2) the Federal Open Market Committee; (3) 12 regional Federal Reserve Banks located in major cities throughout the nation acting as fiscal agents for the U.S. Treasury, each with its own nine-member board of directors; (4) numerous private U.S. member banks, which subscribe to required amounts of non-transferable stock in their regional Federal Reserve Banks; and (5) various advisory councils.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve

Either way- it is not supposed to be meddling in private affairs ESPECIALLY not on behalf of individual entities.

And they failed...

michael3b's picture

"One of the most stunning government bailouts in American history failed on Wednesday to stem the runaway fears engulfing the global financial system."

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/18/business/18markets.html?partner=rssyah...

Well, it wasn't a complete failure- they did manage to save AIG from becoming controlled by someone other than its current, malfeasant, boardmembers. WHEW!

OH NOES!!!!

Kangagang's picture

FAIL

FAIL

Kangagang's picture

I am standing here corrected.

michael3b's picture

The public must now take over $1 trillion of debt...

Kangagang's picture

...in order to protect themselves from the losses made by Wall Street. Does this mean that the public will be invited to participate in the profits generated by Wall St sometime soon?

Uh. No

And does this do anything to change house prices or address the structural problems underlying the economy?

Uh. No.

US economy still rolling into the shitbin...

All they managed to do...

michael3b's picture

..was give the junkies a quick fix.  Someone I know made that analogy, and it fits.   The fundamentals are still horribly flawed and the market correction that WILL take place is going to take many, many years.  This is too painful for Wall St. to bear, so they will be back to giving out credit to people who don't need or deserve it soon enough and we'll be back in this mess again if this bailout mentality persists.

The level of shame to which these...

michael3b's picture

...fucks have sunk cannot even be reached by seismic waves.

$700 BILLION?! I wouldn't give them the asshole out of a dead skunk... if I had an extra to spare that is. But, alas, times are tough and I've only got this one.

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Wall-Street-Leads-the-Soci-by-John-Kell...

a longish piece, but...

Bushco. is leaving the next administration a fine gift.

RidingFool's picture

Be it 'Boobie or Demodumb, their hands will be tied regarding any new proposals for health care, tax reductions, military spending, and on and on.

I'm confident the Demodumbs will give Bushco. everything it wants in this latest legislative financial relief package. After hemming and hawing and false bravado, Demodumbs will cave again, making it look like they had their hands tied and could do nothing else.

No oversight. No responsibility. No reduction in golden parachutes. WTF is going on down there? Does anyone know?

* crickets *

This mess actually goes back to Ronald Reagan

FearlessFreep's picture

If not earlier.

It's a real disgrace that Ronald the Damned is still such a sacred cow.

 

Signed, 

The artist formerly known as Zorro.

Reagan?

jazzdrive3's picture

Reagan certainly wasn't the saint he's made out to be, but this mess goes back much further.  Let's start with Wilson and the creation of the Fed, followed by FDR, and his perpetuation of the depression with similar policies as the current one's being implemented, then flow on down to Nixon for putting the final nail in the coffin of the gold standard (even though it was hardly a gold standard.)

 

Wilson?

michael3b's picture

You aren't wrong, jazz, but this particular mess is a new beast. Wilson and Reagan didn't make it, although Ronnie's deregulation mania didn't help.  This was a case of rampant, unchecked greed and addiction.  Wall St. banks are addcited to unlimited credit. You can blame the gov't for forcing fannie and freddie to give out credit to some unworthies, but the lion's share of the disaster lies in the speculation into and trading of complex debt "products".  In short, these guys created and inflated this housing bubble all by themselves... they should have to sit and watch it pop. 

 

Oh they should definately be

jazzdrive3's picture

Oh they should definately be forced to watch it pop.

But whenever gov't gets involved it distorts the marketplace, and in this case they encouraged bad investments that weren't really backed by anything.  It was bound to fail eventually, and the Fed is trying to put wood glue into a termite infestation, completely ignoring the termites.  The market is trying to correct itself form the massive distortions pumped into it, and it should be painful. 

Part of the blame should be layed at Greenspans feet.

It's only going to get worse.  You can't just keep printing money and throwing it into the economy.  I should have bought stockpiles of gold when it was at $800.  But who would have thought it was going to go much higher than that?

 

Thankfully, Obama has jumped in

RidingFool's picture

and wants accountability, among other things. I'm surprised he's going against Demoboobs like Pelosi and her herd. I guess we'll have to wait and see if he actually comes through, or if his opposition to the existing proposals is more Demoboob farting in the wind.

Good comment on current financial crisis

Coaster's picture

LittleBigGirl's husband said this the other night on their radio show:

Hey Fed! That new money you're going to be printing: Does that come in a 2-ply?

 ==Coaster (Whooooeeee!)

 

 

I don't understand

RidingFool's picture

America wants to be like Canada. You guys aren't jealous, are ya?

Will someone please explain to me what is going on here?

TMundo's picture

-Why exactly are all these companies loosing money?

-Is it Bush's fault, or is it just bad luck, does Iraq have anything to do with it?

-So the government is bailing these companies out, is that considered socialist because it goes against a free market?

-If the Fed consists of a bunch of private bankers, doesn't that make it socialist to begin with?

Help me understand.

-They lost money because

jazzdrive3's picture

-They lost money because investments were made that weren't backed by anything tangible.  As soon as the housing bubble popped and the dollar began losing value, these investments went *poof*.

-Iraq certainly has something to do with it.  It's part of why the dollar is losing value.  We keep printing more money to fund it.

-Governemnt control and funding of anything is technically socialist.  So technically roads are socialist.  Education is socialist. And regulations that encouraged, and in some cases required, these faulty investments, are socialist.  You can be for these things and make a rational value judgement that they are necessary, but of course, it always requires more socialism and gov't action to fix the mistakes created by the first gov't action.  With the interstate highway system, for example, in artificially increased the demand for automobiles and played a signifcant role in our current dependance on oil.  Education - it's still fucked up.

And in the financial sector's case, we get a proposed bailout.  And probably more regulations to add some more accountability.

Another example is Enron.  People think that was a failing of the market, but it really wasn't.  It was the lack of accountability given the corporate structure by gov't, coupled with loopholes in regulations.  And so now we have SOX that adds more accountability and transparency, but is so convoluted that it will need to be reformed in 10-20 years.  This is how politicians stay in business and create "need" for themselves.  There's no way Ken Lay would have done what he did if he knew he would have to take full responsibility for his actions.  In face, he was counting on his political connections, as Enron had done in the past, to get him out of any pickle he might find himself in.

Back to the financial sector, we had congressmen patting each other on the back 10 years ago that they had helped make it easier for people to buy houses.  But what they really was help make the current crises possible.  So now they have to act again.  And they will congratulate themselves again.  Just one example.  The free market in the financial and banking sectors doesn't exist.  It's a highly managed sector that encouraged risky speculation.  It will be interesting to see how this changes, if at all.

This lady nails it.

michael3b's picture

thanks, I was looking to point the finger at Bush...

TMundo's picture

...but this seems somewhat beyond that, unless it can be blamed on complete deregulation.

Bush is certainly and majorly culpable

Coaster's picture

His administration rolled back regulations that had been in place since FDR and fought against new regulations. Tonight, Rachel Maddow named four of the five top Bush Failures. See if you can figure out which ones she put on the list and which one I added to complete it.

Top Five Failures of the George W. Bush Administration

  1. Failure to Prevent 9/11 by totally ignoring the numerous warnings from the previous administration;
  2. Invaded Iraq though Iraq wasn't a threat to us nor did Iraq have anything to do with 9/11;
  3. Failure to provide aid to Katrina victims;
  4. The Current Financial Crisis; and
  5. The complete disappearance of any kind of new Star Trek series for as long as anyone can remember.

 Historians my not ultimately classify Dubya as The Worst President in History, but the man is clearly a contendah. 

Prepare for a bumpy ride

HS's picture

Looks like I still have a job after all...and while that means postponing my travels for a bit, I actually feel a bit relieved, knowing what a shaky economy we are in right now, and for AT LEAST the next 8 months. 

I'd like to say that getting a new Preznit in office will help consumer confidence levels, but I just can't say that.  Methinks whoever our next Preznit is MAY BE a one-termer, if only b/c he has so much shit to clean up he'll ultimately be seen as otherwise unproductive.  Not really fair, but neither is that fact that octagenarian Michael Douglas gets to share a bed with Catherine Zeta-Jones.

HS

Kwai Chang McCain

Rajah's picture

Kung-Fu McCain

(Conspiracy Nation, 09/04/08) – Shaolin monk Kwai Chang Caine wandered the American west, searching for his half-brother Danny Caine. In China, Caine had murdered the emperor's nephew, reminiscent of the biblical Cain's murder of Abel. Kwai Chang Caine bore marks: tattoos on his inner forearms.

The marks borne by Kwai Chang Caine bring to mind the mark borne by the biblical Cain. (“And the Lord put a mark on Cain, lest any who came upon him should kill him.” Genesis 4: 15)

Kwai Chang Caine did eventually find his half-brother Danny Caine. (Wikipedia, Sept. 3, 2008). And, it has been learned, Danny Caine had a son, named John. Since he was the son of Caine, he was called “McCain”. (Background: “Turn To The East”, http://www.shout.net/~bigred/TurnEast.html)

This son of Danny Caine, John McCain, is now a candidate for U.S. President.

Like his uncle Kwai Chang Caine, John McCain bears marks of Cain, received during his long imprisonment in the Orient. Also like his uncle Kwai, John McCain has a vaguely oriental appearance.

When Kwai Chang Caine wandered the American west in search of his half-brother Danny, local ne'er-do-wells used to ridicule and insult him:

Ne'er-do-wells: Har, har, har! Hey, Chinaman! What's yer name!?

Kwai Chang Caine: I am Caine (Cain).

Right there, if they had paid heed, something important had been said: He is Cain. But the ne'er-do-wells did not “get it.”

But later, after the ne'er-do-wells had thoroughly insulted Kwai Chang Caine, they became too bold: eventually attempted physical intimidation would occur. Kwai Chang Caine would have a flashback, and recall former words: “If any one slays Cain (Caine), vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold.” The physical intimidation qualified as an attempt to “slay Cain (Caine)” and fearful vengeance was extracted.

Like his uncle Kwai, John McCain escaped from the Orient bearing marks. Psychological marks inflicted during his captivity make John McCain truly a son of Cain (Caine).

In a plot twist, John McCain blames not his oriental captors for his ordeal, but the Russians who supplied them with weapons. These enabled his tormentors to proceed with their devilments. In the judgement of John McCain, his oriental captors were only the hired hands of the Russians. “Vengeance shall be taken on them sevenfold” is McCain's grim purpose.

And so we have come full-circle: from the earliest beginning when Cain became a wanderer; to the days of wandering monk Kwai Chang Caine; and now to the fulfillment: John McCain. He has sought vengeance these many years, prodded on by his psychological marks. The ne'er-do-well Russians are laughing at the hapless candidate: “Har, har, har! What's yer name!?”

“I am McCain.”

Conspiracy Nation

http://www.shout.net/~bigred/cn.html

 

Letter I sent to the NY Times

michael3b's picture

Barney Frank was quoted yesterday as saying,  "as long as it looks as if we are seriously engaged, it's not too late" to act. This telling quote, when viewed against AIG's unwillingness to take on capital offered by the free market prior to its running scared to the Fed, as well as the reports of an actual market existing for these supposedly "toxic" securities, go to show that this 'bailout" is actually the biggest sham ever perpetrated on the American people.  Oh, well. As long as it LOOKS like we're doing something...

 

This rush to pass it looks suspicious

Rajah's picture

They are always attaching other things to bills. Congress would be wise to look this turkey over. Does anybody really know if this bill will work? If it's just something they're doing to appear to be doing something, that's plain stupid.

And why oh why hasn't Obama brought up the Savings and Loan scandal? McCain figured big time in that one. This is no time to be pulling punches.

This bail out could turn out to be a wrong move and if the Dems back it they could come off stinking in the up coming elections.

Yeah, something needs to be done but is this it?

And consider the source

Rajah's picture

Paulson's father Pat didn't look too bright on the Smother Brothers Show. Should we trust his son with our finacial system?

The only thing needing doing...

michael3b's picture

...is almost nothing. Pass oversight reform, protect the individuals whose actual assets are in trouble... and let the dogs fight this thing out in the open market.

Like I say- the market for these things the Fed would be buying exists, the "owners" just don't want to sell at the price the market would bear. They want what the Fed will pay, which is much much MORE.  Same went for AIG, who refused to play by free market rules lest they lose control of their company to someone who could actually afford to run it properly.

These are the most despicable people alive not committing murder.  And this "deal" stinks to high hades.  Write to you congressfolk.

Shouldn't some people be going to jail?

Rajah's picture

Making the tax payers bail out these crooks stinks. The government would be better off helping the people who are in foreclosure directly

The people in forclosure

jazzdrive3's picture

The people in forclosure don't give campaign contributions and don't have major lobbyists.

The rush to pass it also seems eerily similar to the Patriot Act.  Secretary Paulson doesn't want anyone looking too closely at the bill, because it gives him near dictatorial powers in the sector.

Something else suspicious:  Paulson is the former CEO of Goldman-Sachs, who undoubatley still has buddies there.  I wonder if he still has stock in the company he's wanting to bail out...

And what's with all these closed sessions?

Rajah's picture

They're definitely trying to hide something here

Come on, Raj. You know that without a closed session,

RidingFool's picture

the government can't spend what little remaining money you all have to bail out everyone but the "regular guy".

We should declare war on Canada!

Rajah's picture

There's money in rape and plunder!

Bring it on!

RidingFool's picture

To quote one of the more memorable statements made by the self-declared "leader of the free world". Trouble is, it ain't so free now where the leader lives, thanks to eight years of shit and shine.

Canada could actually use a little American-imposed freedom. If America could help Canada get rid of its socialism, Canada would end up being more like America, where socialism is frowned upon by government and citizens alike.

There is far too much rampant government interference in Canada's businesses, unlike in the U.S., where government is unlikely or afraid to intervene in the affairs of big business, especially in affairs of finance.

Let the American free market approach rein!

You see where this "free" market got us

Rajah's picture

Where the heck is grundle? This sounds like his cup of pee

Proposal: Decisions by Paulson can't be appealed

Coaster's picture

Did you see where part of Treasury's proposal where the Secretary of the Treasury's decisions relating to certain financial matters can't be appealed to the courts? To that I say

"FUCK YOU Paulson! We've had enough of that kind of Bush-shit to last several generations.

President Bush has really given many of us an appreciation for the checks and balances provided by our Constitution. It's a damn shame out nutless Congress hasn't been doing its job as far as oversight is concerned. I hope they don't give Paulson a free pass even though he's beating the hell out of the fear drum. Nice that he's timed all this right before a Congressional recess that likely will be taken because it's campaign time.

Hey, Foo, Mal, Shakes, Hairhead! Does Canada have any openings? I'll take the one Alec Baldwin was going to use if it's still available.

Yep

jazzdrive3's picture

As I said above, Paulson, a CEO masquerading as a Secretary, wants dictatorial powers to do whatever he wants in the sector. He does have some friends to help out, after all.

And you're surprised by this?

RidingFool's picture

Everything the government has done in the past eight apparently can't be appealed. Just ask anyone in government.

C'mon up! Get some of that "free" healthcare. We got a few dodgers up here too. Maybe we can organize a putsch and import some of that organized socialism going on down south with Wall Street.

All kidding aside, I really feel as though Paulson's Putsch will get passed after the Demodumbs do some foot-stomping and then give the devil his dues. I mean really, when have the Demodumbs actually opposed anything the 'Boobies have proposed?

I glad I don't work in Congress

Rajah's picture

The spine extraction operation must be painful!

I heard Cheney is meating with members of Congress

I'm sure he'll win them over with his "charm"

I'm glad you don't work in Congress either, because

RidingFool's picture

then I'd have someone to send abusive emails to that I actually know.

Somebody finally showed Bush the panic button!

Kangagang's picture

LOL

You guys are scaring me...

TMundo's picture

...who is this Paulsen, and is he gonna pass aBill only a few select in congress can see?

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