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Let me catch you up to speed: he claimed I didn't like it because I didn't understand it. I claimed I did and this is where the chat begins:
Matt Lecter: No, it's a freak occurence meant to bring the characters to the understanding (they are already united) that they have no control over their own lives. The best way to have control, or the most control they'll have perhaps, is to settle for the cards life gives. Think about the Exodus reference.
Bulworth 83: I understood that.
Matt Lecter: Yes, it says it rains frogs, but why does it rain frogs?
Bulworth 83: It's a simple theme in the movie.
Bulworth 83: Every character is changed by a chance happening.
Bulworth 83: I realize this.
Bulworth 83: It doesn't change what I said about the frogs being too whimsical.
Matt Lecter: It does if you understand why it had to be frogs...
Bulworth 83: There ARE other freak occurences and more realistic ones to demonstrate the point.
Bulworth 83: Oh, yeah, why does it have to be frogs?
Bulworth 83: Because it says "frogs" in Exodus?
Bulworth 83: Don't presume that, because I don't like something, I don't understand it.
Bulworth 83: It's a mistake that often offends people, Matt.
Bulworth 83: Whether the occurence had to be a frog rain or not, it does not change my personal reaction to it.
Bulworth 83: If Exodus said it was supposed to rain nutcracker dolls instead of frogs, would you criticize me for complaining that those were too whimsical?
Matt Lecter: No, not if it had rained nutcracker dolls in Exodus.
Matt Lecter: The religious tie is very important.
Bulworth 83: So it could rain cotton candy and circus peanuts in the Bible and you'd criticize me for not taking that seriously?
Matt Lecter: Yep. If it had rained cotton candy and peanuts in the Bible I'd criticize you for not taking it seriously.
Bulworth 83: That's stupid.
Matt Lecter: Because the whole religious statement ties it all together.
Bulworth 83: I cannot believe that if it rained dildoes, inflatable dolls, and butt plugs in the Bible, you'd criticize me for it.
Matt Lecter: I wouldn't criticize you for the Bible...
Bulworth 83: You'd criticize me for disliking the ending.
Matt Lecter: I told that I didn't think you understood it, that's why you didn't like it.
Bulworth 83: I understood it perfectly.
Bulworth 83: But it still doesn't change the fact that, in my mind, frogs are whimsical creatures.
Bulworth 83: They hop; they ribbit.
Bulworth 83: Just seeing them makes me laugh.
Bulworth 83: So how can I keep from laughing (and therefore ruining the dramatic part) during the ending?
Matt Lecter: If it had rained anything else at the end of the movie, the religious tie would have been cut Matt Lecter: And that is extremely important.
Bulworth 83: But not if the Bible said it rained something else.
Matt Lecter: But the Bible doesn't say it rained something else!
Bulworth 83: BUT IF IT DID!
Bulworth 83: IT'S HYPOTHETICAL!
Bulworth 83: If the Bible said Larry Flynt sent a vicious rain of sex toys down from heaven and, if MAGNOLIA referenced this by having pocket pussies fall from the skies and I didn't like it because I laughed, you'd criticize me?
Matt Lecter: Let's not talk hypothetically then, because the Bible says it rained frogs and there's nothing you can do about it!
Matt Lecter: You're agreeing with me that it shouldn't have rained anything else but saying the Bible's wrong because it rained frogs in the Bible.
Matt Lecter: I'd like for you to tell me what else you think PT could have done and kept the religious tie.
Matt Lecter: What else could it have rained?
Matt Lecter: Or, what else could have happened...it doesn't have to rain at all.
Matt Lecter: What would you have done?
Bulworth 83: Cut the religious ties.
Bulworth 83: Dude, I cannot help it if I didn't like the ending.
Bulworth 83: It's not something I can change.
Bulworth 83: I understand it; I don't like it.
Matt Lecter: The Bible's not something I can change, so don't talk hypothetically, it'll get you nowhere.
Matt Lecter: I wouldn't have liked it if the religious ties had been cut.
Bulworth 83: I understand this, Matt.
Bulworth 83: You liked a movie; I liked it save for the ending.
Bulworth 83: Hypothetically doesn't mean it wasn't changed.
Matt Lecter: Yes, but speaking hypothetically isn't getting you anywhere.
Bulworth 83: Hypothetically means that, IF the Bible had been something initially and P.T. used it for the ending, you'd still criticize me for not liking the whimsical nature of whatever was rained.
Matt Lecter: It's not necessarily the frogs that I liked, it was the way it tied in to religion.
Bulworth 83: Grr...
Bulworth 83: I know this...
Bulworth 83: You've made it more than amply clear...
Bulworth 83: And I can see why you loved the movie.
Bulworth 83: I loved it up until the ending.
Bulworth 83: Capiche?
Matt Lecter: I know I have! I've also made it clear that if it had rained something else in the Bible, no matter what, and you laughed at the movie for it, I would still criticize you.
Bulworth 83: And that is wrong...you cannot criticize someone for their taste.
Matt Lecter: I criticized you because I didn't think you understood it.
Bulworth 83: And now that you realize I do, you continue to criticize me...
Matt Lecter: I continue to criticize you because I still don't think you get it.
Bulworth 83: Dude, I get it.
Bulworth 83: It's a biblical reference.
Bulworth 83: Woohoo.
Bulworth 83: Yippie yay.
Matt Lecter: I don't think you realize how much would've been lost had the religious ties been cut.
Bulworth 83: And I think, since I'm not religious, that I'd ever miss the religious ties.
Bulworth 83: Do you understand this?
Bulworth 83: I understand why you think it's important.
Bulworth 83: Can you understand why I don't?
Matt Lecter: It's not just "hey look 'Exodus 8:2', let's use that as a reference"
Matt Lecter: Why do these things happen? Do they just happen?
Bulworth 83: Yes.
Bulworth 83: They do.
Bulworth 83: In real life, this happens all the time.
Bulworth 83: There's over a hundred documented cases of actual frog rains.
Bulworth 83: And there's a couple of fish rains.
Matt Lecter: That's true, but, they don't just happen.
Bulworth 83: In the movie, they signify the characters being affected by chance.
Matt Lecter: I think the movie is saying that these stories of chance and coincidence are neither.
Bulworth 83: And I don't/.
Matt Lecter: That's why we're all subject to the interruptions. That's why we have to stop trying to take control.
Bulworth 83: I think the movie is saying that these are people who are totally unrelated, but only a few degrees from Kevin Bacon.
Bulworth 83: I mean, Julianne Moore has a Bacon rating of 3.
Bulworth 83: And Tom Cruise is a 1.
Matt Lecter: And what about little Dixon?
Bulworth 83: Only a two.
Bulworth 83: Since he stars with Cruise in MAGNOLIA and Cruise stars with Bacon in TAPS.
Matt Lecter: Where would he have gone?
Bulworth 83: In fact, now that I think about it, Moore's gotta be a two, as well.
Matt Lecter: Had religious ties been cut...
Bulworth 83: He could've finished up each of the characters' stories and made much more of a statement.
Bulworth 83: Whether or not it's a Biblical one.
Bulworth 83: But that's my opinion.
Bulworth 83: Since you value the Bible, obviously, you have a different one.
Bulworth 83: And we're never going to agree, so let's agree to disagree.
Matt Lecter: When in life are our stories finished?
Bulworth 83: Oh, Christ.
Bulworth 83: Okay, look...
Bulworth 83: In that case, no movie would ever be finished.
Matt Lecter: I don't necessarily value it as much as you think I do.
Bulworth 83: They presented us with certain conflicts and they could've wrapped them up by the end of the movie.
Bulworth 83: Or, at least, tried to entertain an incomplete resolution.
Bulworth 83: It's a movie.
Bulworth 83: It's acted.
Bulworth 83: It's scripted.
Matt Lecter: Wait, which relationships did you want resolved?
Bulworth 83: It's not a slice of life given the director's penchant for the supernatural (I mean, how many people sing "Wise Up" at the same time, alternating to provide lyrics for each other).
Bulworth 83: The one between Jimmy Gator and his daughter.
Matt Lecter: Jimmy Gator died, bud.
Bulworth 83: When?
Bulworth 83: Did I miss something?
Matt Lecter: That's about as much resolution as you're gonna get.
Bulworth 83: Moore and the money.
Bulworth 83: How about that one?
Matt Lecter: Yeah, he shot the TV, was knocked unconcious by a frog and died in the fire.
Bulworth 83: Oh, yeah...
Bulworth 83: Okay, but Moore and the money...
Matt Lecter: What about it? What can she do?
Bulworth 83: She didn't want it and she didn't want Frank to have it.
Bulworth 83: The lawyer DOES have power of attorney.
Bulworth 83: So what happened there?
Bulworth 83: Or how about the cop, and the crackhead?
Bulworth 83: He gives her the speech, but we never really see her reaction.
Matt Lecter: Yes, but you have to assume that some sort of resolution was made between Frank and Linda
Bulworth 83: No, you don't.
Matt Lecter: Hell, Frank goes to see her in the hospital
Bulworth 83: Sheesh.
Bulworth 83: Look, all I'm saying is this:
Bulworth 83: The movie had very few flaws.
Bulworth 83: VERY FEW.
Bulworth 83: And the frog was the major one.
Matt Lecter: But it wasn't...:-)
Bulworth 83: To you it wasn't.
Bulworth 83: To me it was.
Bulworth 83: It's a matter of opinion.
Matt Lecter: Jim and Claudia were talking at the end of the movie.
Bulworth 83: Do you think you're going to sway my opinion on this film?
Bulworth 83: I know they were.
Bulworth 83: But you never find out how they did.
Matt Lecter: Jim said something like, "I'd like to see you again."
Bulworth 83:
Do...you...think...you're...going...to...sway...my...opinion
...on...this...film?
Matt Lecter: And then she turns to the camera and smiled.
Matt Lecter: I must've thought that to get into an argument with you.
Bulworth 83: You haven't swayed me yet.
Bulworth 83: Why not stop?
Bulworth 83: You're only irritating me.
Matt Lecter: But I've proved you wrong.
Bulworth 83: I mean, it's agitating me knowing that neither of us will ever sway each other.
Bulworth 83: Woo...big deal.
Bulworth 83: You still haven't changed my opinion.
Bulworth 83: The lack of resolution I thought existed is nothing compared to my seething disgust with the frogs.
Matt Lecter: You never answered me.
Matt Lecter: What else could have happened?
Bulworth 83: NOTHIGN.
Bulworth 83: But because there is no alternative doesn't mean the only choice is good.
Matt Lecter: So what would've made anybody understand that they were looking at life the wrong way.
Matt Lecter: So should the movie have ended right before the frogs started falling?
Bulworth 83: It's a flaw for which I have not a fix.
Bulworth 83: Okay, did you see BATTLEFIELD: EARTH?
Matt Lecter: Should that part have been cut out and right after Claudia tells Jim that she doesn't think they should see each other and then jump to the scene where the narrator starts talking again?
Matt Lecter: No
Matt Lecter: Why?
Bulworth 83: What's the shittiest movie you've ever seen?
Matt Lecter: I don't know, I tend to forget those.
Bulworth 83: Dude, let's stop talking about it.
Bulworth 83: You're not getting what I'm saying.
Bulworth 83: I have no idea how to cure it.
Bulworth 83: But just because I can't cure cancer doesn't mean I have to like it.
Bulworth 83: Just because I can't fix my leaking roof doesn't mean I have to like it.
Bulworth 83: Just because I can't upgrade my computer doesn't mean I have to like it.
Bulworth 83: Do you get what I'm saying?
Matt Lecter: I get what you're saying...but look at the other side of those examples...
Bulworth 83: What other side?
Bulworth 83: My house is perfect without the damn leak.
Bulworth 83: If I could fix it, it would be again perfect.
Bulworth 83: But I can't.
Matt Lecter: Bad example. A roofer can fix that leaky roof.
Matt Lecter: I meant cancer.
Bulworth 83: A FILMMAKER CAN FIX THE LEAKY FILM!
Matt Lecter: I don't think he could've, and I think it would've been leakier had the scene not been there...
Bulworth 83: Maybe an alternate scene could be used.
Bulworth 83: Fine, you liked the movie.
Bulworth 83: Why does it upset you so much that I don't?
Matt Lecter: It's easy to be offended about something that you're passionate about.
Matt Lecter: Who do you love most in the world?
Bulworth 83: Myself.
Bulworth 83: Actually, just kidding.
Bulworth 83: Uh, probably my father or my best friend.
Matt Lecter: What if you took me to meet your father and I thought he was a great guy except for the fact that I don't like his...well...something about him. I don't know.
Bulworth 83: I don't give a crap...
Matt Lecter: Sure you do!
Bulworth 83: No, I don't.
Bulworth 83: I'd defend him if something was factually wrong (as you've done), but opinion is opinion.
Bulworth 83: I can claim his is faulty but I certainly cannot debate it.
Bulworth 83: Factually, I was wrong on the unresolved ending.
Bulworth 83: But the frogs is a matter of opinion.
Matt Lecter: Yes you would defend him. You would try to tell me that this wasn't his fault, or not necessarily something that can be changed, or maybe something that if it were changed, would make him a different and less likable person.
Bulworth 83: Great; now you're telling me how I'd react to something that's occured many times before.
Bulworth 83: People tell me my dad's an asshole all the time.
Bulworth 83: I don't argue with them.
Bulworth 83: I mean, what's the point?
Bulworth 83: I can argue with them, but I can't retread the same argument over and over because opinion is opinion.
Matt Lecter: Because you know they're wrong.
Bulworth 83: Wrong or not, it's not my duty to be the ambassador for my father.
Matt Lecter: You know they're wrong because if they could know him the same way you knew him, they'd change their minds.
Bulworth 83:
I...do...not...argue...with...people...about...my...dad.
Matt Lecter: You know he's a great guy, because you see certain aspects of him that others don't. Why wouldn't you try to change their opinion?
Bulworth 83: Because there's no way to enlighten people regarding their opinion.
Bulworth 83: You can bring to light facts.
Bulworth 83: As you've done.
Bulworth 83: But, if that still doesn't change their opinion, there's not much else you can do.
Matt Lecter: Except encourage them to try to understand you're father better. Why wouldn't you want them to view him the same as you?
Bulworth 83: It doesn't matter to me.
Bulworth 83: I can defend him factually, but I can't defend my stance emotionally.
Bulworth 83: Connotations are connotations and nothing more.
Matt Lecter: Well, frankly, it would bug the hell out of me, because that's the kind of person I am.
Bulworth 83: So be it.
Bulworth 83: But don't argue with me on a topic you cannot change my opinion regarding.
Bulworth 83: Please let's talk about something else.
Bulworth 83: This really is bugging me.
Matt Lecter: Except I don't think you understand it the same way I do, or are looking at it differently...
Bulworth 83: I'm wasting valuable moments of my life debating pointlessly.
Matt Lecter: If I had to pick one aspect of the movie I hated and one I loved, it would be the ambiguity and the ambiguity...
Matt Lecter: Oh well..
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